Hi Leslie! So nice to find you here :)
wow! so powerful!
I don't think he meant that you should yell at the person, but if it is said right, you can confront them and they'll listen to you.
You’re absolutely right, but...
I don’t speak up because I have told people I was hurt by what they said ( wrote my feelings via email). I didn’t get an apology. I got mussar.
I try to tell myself ‘this is from Hashem. It’s not the person.’ It took me many years to internalize this, and I am still working on it.
You are right, its from Hashem, everything is, at the same time, the person that hurt you needs to know it. The fact that they replied to you with Musar, just goes to show you how many issues that other person has. From what you wrote, its quite clear, the person with the issue is the one that hurt you. Doven for them, you did your part, Hashem will reward you 1000000x fold!
Replying to Anon2. I remembered another time this person didn’t apologize.
They explained why they did ‘x’ when all I wanted was to be told ‘I’m sorry’
You’re right, they have issues.
While yes, they need to know, I don't think that the mussar they gave should cause the conclusion to be that they have issues. Maybe this person has a hard time being confronted - even when it's mainly for the other person - but at the end of the day, he/she is still a person who needs to be held in the same regard as everyone else. Maybe the fact that they have a hard time with such conversations simply shows that the language used and time picked for the discussion needs to be chosen more carefully. May we all have hatzlacha in these kinds of situations!
The above comments are correct if the person who did it feels they are always right and never do any wrong. To someone like that you can try to ask, " If someone did something like that to you- and it hurt you- what would you tell them? (chances are that they'll change the subject)
I totally agree with you... I recently made a phone call to a 'friend' of mine to figure things out between the two of us, but while we were trying to find a common goal, she focused on what has to change and spent most of our conversation contradicting me on what I did and how everything could have been better if I changed. After she finished with that she told me she had to go and will call me back later. I am still waiting for her phone call... Thank you Rabbi Sytner for making me feel more encouraged that I am doing the right thing by confronting my friend. May everyone have much hatzlocha resolving their arguments while keeping the shalom!
R'sytner is so right! it works !!! expericed it may not feel good but do it.
Great. I have done that and it works. i felt so much better.
My experience has also been that this does not necessarily lead to shalom. It needs to be done right. Both parties need to be in an open, accepting frame of mind. It is difficult to know when the other party is feeling ready to talk.
I once had success with this when I contacted the person ahead of time and asked them for a time for a us to talk. We spoke over coffee and, while it was uncomfortable, we were able to get past the hurt. There was hurt on both sides. But a different time, when I was afraid that the person would not be receptive, I chose to swallow it and come to shalom by giving the person the benefit of the doubt. It took a LONG time to come to a place of shalom (about 5 years), but now, 10 years later, it just doesn't make a difference anymore. The other party does not know that they hurt me and we actually have a better relationship.
Wow. You are 100% on target. Both parties need to be in an open accepting frame of mind.
I too had a person that wasn’t receptive to something that I was hurt about. I too chose not to say anything. It also took me several years to come to terms with it.
It's also about finding the right time/place to say it, and using the right language. And it's only when you don't think you'll be able to move past it -- it will affect your relationship or leave you stewing until you have this convo.
And good comments too! :)
I think it's all about HOW you say it. Make it sound like you want to improve your relationship. Try not to sound like you're accusing the other person,
Excellent ! Thank you, Rabbi Sytner.
Wow. Thank you, Rabbi Sytner!
The Torah says that Yosef’s brothers could not speak with him words of peace. The Ohr Hachayim points out that if their father wouldn’t have favoured Yosef his brothers would have been able to tell him off. Had they had a chance to speak it out the story would have been totally different.1
Regarding anonymous concern with approaching the other party.
I have benefited greatly from the BITACHON perspective perspective on how to face situations where you feel wronged. You can learn life changing BITACHON principles and even ask questions directly to the Rav behind it at the following number. He will respond to you in a timely manner. This number is priceless, so I may as well share it free of charge. It has changed my life, as well as my children's life. 732-719-3898
Thanks so much, Rabbi Sytner, for this important lesson. I will try it! Tzirel
The halacha is to approach the person and ask, " why did you do this? " You give them a chance to explain.
WOW!! Thank you so much!! This is such a powerful lesson!!
This is just what I needed to hear today! Thank you!!
I love to be b'shalom with everyone and am feeling so sad about a recent work situation where client was trying to get so much out of me for so little money and I kept wanting to please her and do everything she said to the detriment of my family and my peace of mind. I spoke to a Rav and was advised to set the boundaries and also to not speak to her by phone (since she keeps renegotiating and I give in). But ever since then I just feel so yucky to have cut off the phone calls. I keep wanting to make shalom by just doing more free work for her but know that it's surely not the right thing... I'd love to hear you people's view!
First, ask Hashem to give you the inner strength to feel ok with yourself when you cut the conversation short.
Second, parnassah comes from Hashem. You’re not doing work for free. He can send money a different way.. This woman sounds like a manipulator, if she keeps renegotiating like that. I am not sure why you are trying to please her, so I can’t give my thoughts on that one. I wish you much hatzlacha in finding peace of mind with this woman.
Anonymous. This EXACT situation happened to me. I had been holding on to anger for a person for more than 15 yrs. I finally decided that it was time to try my best & put an end to it. I decided on the spur of the moment to call the person up. We had a good conversation, & I TRULY DID feel like a tremendous weight had been lifted from my shoulders! We are now back on speaking terms with each other. This is definitely a hard thing to do, at least it was for me personally. But I thank Hakadosh Baruch Hu every day for giving me the chizuk to have done it
wow very powerful and so helpful thank you!!
I’ve had a wide range of experiences of this. Only sometimes does it work. In the process of learning about all the hate & the antagonists that have come in to my life (& on the whole I am a peace-seeking person), I’ve learnt a lot about how to approach this conundrum; sometimes it can be surprisingly worthwhile to voice one’s deeply personal pain & experience & ask the other to explain. However, I have had to deal with many abusive people. I found that habitual, serial abusers are already removed, they are not among those who might hear - despite any attempt to use very different approaches. They are often emotionally deeply dishonest. And I had at least 3 who were very happy to cause me pain & hurt, actually deriving triumphant pleasure from witnessing it. For them, I had to learn a completely different tactic, one that protected me without giving even the slightest appearance of experiencing pain let alone appearing as aggressive or defensive. Davening to Hashem always has helped. Concentrating on & learning more about emunah & bitachon has made me stronger, more able to overcome the pain they have the intention to cause. Also, working on one’s sense of self-esteem & one’s purpose in this life help to strengthen that internal ‘essential self’, very important to know this.
Makes sense but confronting the person right at the time that they hurt your feelings is not a great time f youre feeling very upset at the person because it may be hard to speak in a cordial tone and speak politely when youre feeling so upset . Maybe wait alittle before you confront them
thank you so much!!
I find these messages come at the exact right time! It is so hard to do with your spouse because you are always around each other and after an argument you want them to apologize and make YOU feel better FIRST! Thank you for this message!
Very helpful. I just had something happen and I am glad that I listened to you. Thank you so much.